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Women´s Corner
A=Anna Veijalainen, artistic director of Kokoteatteri; a member of the Baltic Circle artistic planning group. Age 30, has a child. E=Elina Knihtilä, actor, chairwoman of the board of Q-teatteri; a member of the Baltic Circle artistic planning group. Age 32, has a child. J=Johanna Ropponen, poor free lance director; a producer and a newsletter editor in the Baltic Circle Festival. Age 30, no children. AT=Annika Tudeer: artistic director of Oblivia Company, performer, journalist; a newsletter contributer in the Baltic Circle Festival. Age 39, no children. The conversation takes place early in the Wednesday morning in the Puoli-Q stage. AT: Me and Johanna asked you to come here because we wanted to hear what you as the female part of the artistic planning group could add to the discussion on networking, gender etc. We could start talking about a gender perspective, especially in the perspective of the situation in the East J: Quite many of the director students in Russia are women, but after graduating they disappear. There are maybe five female (sic) directors that have done well, like Kama Ginkas wife... E: Whom we know as “the wife of Kama Ginkas”. J: She is actually the artistic director of their theatre, and she has been directing for years. AT: I wonder if you have been discussing a gender perspective in the artistic planning group? For instance, whether you have conciously been thinking about including female directors from the Baltic area and Russia? J: It sounds always bad, that one should include the token woman. But what really interests me is how the talk about the openness of the Baltic Circle network corresponds with reality? What does this “openness” actually mean for the festival? Who are the ones not showing their work here? Many of the presented directors are very established and not that young anymore nor radical in the ways they make art. E: The choices from Russia and the Baltic area have been built on old contacts. Germany and Scandinavia are newer. J: That is fine, but one should not be talking about presenting new and interesting stuff but be straightforward about that these are our old pals. E: You can’t sell a festival telling the media that we are now going to present our old pals and the choices are partly made by the need for partnerships. J: But that is a danger. It lies in the need for trademarking that is prevalent in our consumer society and enforced by the media. To be the newest and hottest lies in the nature of trademarks. If you want to be the newest and hottest then you really have to be that — where are the 25 year old girls fiddling around in their cellars? AT: You have been seeing a lot during the past two years when you have been working for the festival, even if we can’t se much of it here there is hopefully a future that makes it possible to bring in stuff the next time. Or maybe this is not the place for that — which is fine. E: I have been privileged to work for this festival. It has been amazing. After this festival it will be much easier to know what it all is about. J: But two years is quite a long time... AT (switching the subject): What I find difficult in the discussions during these days is that we all have different interpretations of what words like political mean. J: Because of different cultural backgrounds etc. To be a marxist is completely different for someone in Latvia than for someone in Sweden. AT: So, what is political theatre for you? A: It is part of the work that I am doing all the time at the Theatre centre and in my theatre Kokoteatteri that is small with very little money. The reality that I work with is lobbying, meeting members of parliament, politicians and all kinds of important people. The basic question is to have porridge on the table in the morning. That is one part of my politicality. The other parts are questions about men and women — sex and gender, how to bring new things to the festival and how to deal with difficult subjects in performances. There are many levels of political work in theatre. J: Anna is really doing the crude heavy work. One of the heaviest workloads in this field concerning money and wages — that we should be paid properly. But she does not do political theatre. AT: On the contrary I think that Anna deals with very political themes in her performances. J: But it is not like Tribunalen. AT: But is Tribunalen the only form to do political theatre? A: It is a very straightforward way of doing political theatre. J: Anna really works on affecting the politicians in this country, she works for the rest of us. That is not something you usually talk about in discussions about political theatre. E: I think that our play Comedy Blues is political theatre. It has a political theme. In one of the monologues one of the actors quotes the famous Jesus words “that the last one comes first”. Once listening to that I realised that we are living in a world where the motto is “the first one comes first”. For me Kirkkopelto tries to ease the pain and wants to heal the audience, but at the same time there is a strong message in the play. I have been working in many places as an actress — tv, film…and I can say that theatre is the only place where the market does not rule so much. It is the only place where you can be political, because you can’t be that it in politics anymore. J: You can do it in all forms of art. E: Sure, but not in tv or in media. AT: Is politicality also in the structure of how you work in the Q-teatteri, where you are the chair? E: Still we don’t get enough money to earn our whole living in the Q-teatteri, so we are all working on the side. I think that we are working as democratic as one can. We don’t have an artistic director. We have 50 members and a board of six members – actors, directors and authors. The members choose the board once a year. The board have the power to make the artistic and economic choices. I haven’t heard about this kind of structure in other Finnish theatres. People thought it would not work, but it has worked for seven years. AT: This means a lot of meetings and discussions... J: Which is good! A: Politicality is different in different places. Like my good friend Gudrun Ensslin once said — politics are everywhere — in bed, in the kindergarten, in the shops, at your job. It is different to see it everywhere than to do it and still a different thing to take politics into your art. J: But is it necessary to be political in art? E: I try to influence my audience, to get them to listen to the story that I am telling and I want them to listen to my stories. That is manipulating and I want to stand behind what I am saying. J: As a director I never think that I try to manipulate people, I don’t even try to communicate with them. I never think about my audience. E: You don’t have to stand in front of the them. I want the audience to listen to what we are doing. J: Like Alvis said in Tuesday’s discussion — it is arrogant to think that you can influence the audience, that the masses should listen to us. We are doing our work, our art, and if some one finds something it is wonderful. Its enough that the art work exists, it doesn’t have to influence. A: When I choose a play, I don’t think that “now I am going to be political” but I want to be in contact with this time and what happens here and now. Sometimes the form is structured after the thing itself. Politics come into the performances because of the time we are living in. AT: I was first going to say that the performances that my company does are not political, but what is a concious political choice is how we work — collectively with a lot of responsibility on each individual, for me it is hard to trust people fully. But actually the work we are doing is thematically dealing with structures — power structures in various places from civil war to the art world. They are truly political themes, although I still would not brand us as a political company. Is not all theatre dealing with structures, violence, underdogs, death et.c.? So what is political theatre then — is it to make a manifesto? Probably what I see as political theatre is to have a stand point and claim it — analysing it and aestheticising it. It is a rather simple way to put it. But can one do political theatre without knowing that it is political? E: Manipulating or not. As an actress theatre is the king of acting, you are there with the audience. The contact between audience and acting is what I mean by influencing the audience. They influence me as well. Theatre doesn’t exists without an audience. J: You are talking about that acting doesn’t exist without the audience, but perhaps theatre itself does. The contact stuff is more about acting. E: That is my work — to manipulate people. J: Why not to be with people. E: Thinking about gender. It is so funny to see all those guys here because theatre is a very feminine form of art. It is social work, it has strong emotions. These are features that are seen as feminine. Most of the audience is middle aged females. Sometimes it feels really silly. J: So you are there on the stage to manipulate these middle aged women... E: Not that so much, but that the angry young men are shouting at their mothers, trying to influence their mothers. It is really funny when to see a male actor acting super masculine. J: Besides of Kate Pendry here at the festival, I see a strong division between stage and the audience which is very undemocratic. Very manipulating. You talk, they watch. This is also a political choice. Nobody even walks away from a performance in Finland, because it is not a nice thing to do. One rather cuts his veins than walks out of a performance here. I have made a lot of street performances. There people always can walk out if they want to, they can smoke a cigaret, even interrupt the play... Since I don’t want to manipulate people I want to give them their choice. AT: It is also a matter of entrance, of ticket prices. If you have to pay 10-100 — to see a performance then it is meant for a certain group of people. J: Like the Helsinki Festival’s slogan “Art belongs to everyone” ha-ha, for a ticket price of 30 €. E: In Teater Tribunalen you pay according to your wages. AT: Performances are also esteemed by how expensive the tickets are. The more expensive tickets the more professional and presumably the better the performance is. If it is free or just a couple of euros it is considered amateur-theatre. Unless you make a point of charging a ridiculous small sum. J: Art should not be a product. But when you apply for money you have to have some kind of self sufficiency in your budget, that implies that you need the ticket income. Buy and sell. E: Since the state doesn’t have anymore money to give to culture, there is the question of sponsor money. We have to fight with sport. Since the doping scandals we should have a good situation and get money from the companies. J: Another way is not to make any money, and work in the streets with no backing. That is a choice, but then you are not recognised… but you can do your work. AT: I would go back to what you said about masculinity and femininity — are you saying that all the bearded male directors are actually very feminine? E: They are. Since Jouko Turkka we have had very masculine men as the model for male actors. I have been a student of his students, working with these guys who are great actors but very over masculine in their shouting and grunting at their mothers like angry young men. Besides in these gender discussions it is funny that it is always the women discussing this, here we are four women discussing as if it would be our problem. It is everyone’s problem. It is about justice and human rights. We are treated as female this and that — actor, director, comediennes. I don’t like that at all. I want to be on the same line as the bearded ones. J: There are female authors and authors. AT: What is this super-masculinity grunting away in the theatre world — is it a parody? In order to analyse gender structures you have to analyse men and masculinity to make their invisible gender visible. We are very visible, we female species. A: It is not our problem, but their problem. E: The guys have problems with their role. Ten years in the future women are going to be controlling our society. Most of the academic students are women. J: But will they really control the place, like in Russia with the disappearing directors. Nearly all of us doing this festival are women, but where are we seen? E: It will change. Think — hundred years ago we would have been diagnosed as hysterical women and put into the loony-bin. J: There is a risk though, that the invisibility will happen and go on. There are many female directors in Finland, but they are never considerd as good as their male counterparts. When professions that are male dominated will be taken over by women the esteem of the profession is diminishing. E: But who is going to give birth to all the Finnish childern? AT: The problem is that children are considered a problem. A: That is one of the hidden political issues — I have children, I have never had a salary, I might not get a pension. I have done this for seven years. I am still alive. Nobody dies of hunger here. The difference is if you are used to something and then jump to something like this you are going to be horrified. Short-term work is a normality for me. These structures are a part of the reality of my generation. But it is also a choice for me. J: We are living in consumer society, you can give a damn about all the stuff you are supposed to need and say; I just need to do my work. It’s not the money I need but other things. AT: Still it is not only a personal choice but part fo a bigger structure. J: You are not supposed to talk about in-equality in Finland, because we are sooo equal - compared to Russia or Mocambique. E: When I was studying at the Theatre Academy I was a very angry young woman. I felt somewhat betrayed by the fact that 1000 people are trying to get into the school. 700 women. Our class consisted of 9 boys and 7 girls. Because girls don’t get jobs they said. As a woman you should not be blaming others for not giving you space etc. Today we have Tarja Halonen as president. She is a woman in power, not acting like a man. Most women start to act like men when they get power. There will be a change of how women are dealing with power. J: Hasn’t it become fashionable to listening to the group in companies, the same goes for directors. A: A possibility for the future is to look for directors and authors of different sex, not as the main aim but as something to put in the back of your mind. J: What has been left out, what did we forget about. E: Talking about this subject about gender I always feel very embarassed. Basically it is about getting the same rights. As an artist I can do what I want to do. If I am not given a job I do it anyway. J: One problem is that media still are looking for the next young genius. Who never is a woman. Look at the photos of how male directors and how female directors are represented. There are always these genius posing by the men. How is it still possible to nurture the romantic myth of the male genius? AT: There we go back to good old conciousness raising. Be aware, and say it loud. ERIK SÖDERBLOM: (pops his head behind the curtain) What is going on in here..? J: Hey, there is the bad guy! E: The bearded bad guy! ERIK: (trying to sneak closer to the table) Yeah yeah I’m the really bad guy… J,E,A,AT: Go away, Erik, we don’t want you here. This is the conversation about the problems we are having with you bearded ones! ERIK: Yeah yeah but I think I have some things to say about it… J,E,A,AT: NO, ERIK! ERIK: …Hmmmmpfff… (leaves). AT: So, where were we… JUKKA HYTTI: (pops his head behind the curtain) You can finish your beard conversation in peace but we are gonna go to Takomo now. E: Oh man I promised to take Melani to Takomo! AT: Ok, let’s close up this conversation for now. But, to be continued. E,A,J (all running towards the door): Yes! See you later!
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